Please Hammer, Don’t Hurt Him. November 15, 2007
Posted by Kendricke in Gaming Sites, Insiders, Rise of Kunark.trackback
Over at MMOG Nation, Michael Zenke took some shots at a review of Rise of Kunark posted by Karen “Shayalyn” Hertzberg over at Ten Ton Hammer:
Hey Hammer … this piece on Kunark, that you call a review? The ‘review’ that has a score on it and has review as part of the title? It’s not a review. Not only is it impossible to review a MMOG expansion that just went live yesterday, the reviewer makes it sound like her exposure to the expansion content was just via the guided tour. That’s not a review. That’s a ‘preview’ or ‘first impressions’. Not a review.
His position is that it’s virtually impossible to review an MMO at release. Read through his comments and you see that his entry apparently touched the right buttons as Coyote, Savanja, and Boomjack all come out of the TTH corner swinging.
All of which leads me to wonder, when is it ok to review an MMO? What makes a good review as opposed to a poor one? Is this review really a review or not? And does this even matter to anyone who doesn’t actually write about video games?
For myself, when I pick up a “review”, I’m generally looking for the good, the bad, the ugly, and a recommendation on whether or not I would probably enjoy whatever it is that’s being reviewed.
For example, if I’m interested in hearing about a new resturaunt in downtown Minneapolis, I might read through a review or two which explain that the service is top notch, though a bit slow, that the filet was remarkable and the desserts delightful, but that the price and parking might be a bit restrictive. This at least gives me the critic’s idea of what to expect when I make my reservations (or may help me decide not to provide reservations in the first place). If I’m thinking of going to watch a movie, I might want to read a review on it which lets me know (preferably without too many spoilers) whether or not I would probably want to bring the kids, wait for the DVD, or just skip it altogether.
So, when someone tells me about a “review” of a game, I probably want to hear about some hands on. I want to hear about actual experience with the gameplay. With MMO’s, I want to know even more. I want to know about grouping. I want to hear about loot. I want to know about new spells and abilities. I want to hear about raids or dungeons or tradeskilling or whatever. Just tell me what your personal impressions were based on actual in-game play.
To back things up a bit, I’ll admit that I thought Michael was being a bit harsh when I first read his article blasting the “review” as nothing more than a preview. I thought perhaps he was being a bit too high strung or maybe someone at Ten Ton had kicked his puppy.
Of course, by the same token, I thought the Ten Ton Hammer responses to his article were equally unfair though, as it seemed they were coming back at Michael fairly hard. I thought they sounded overly defensive and felt they were targetted Michael directly for daring to post an attack on one of theirs.
Then I decided to actually read the article which had inspired all the back and forth in the first place. After doing so, I have to say that I think Michael nailed it.
Michael was dead on when he mentions that the reviewer most certainly spent the majority of her review commenting on information gleaned from one of SOE’s press tours. The writer had a lot to say about what Craig “Grimwell” Dalrymple said on the aforementioned press tour, with virtually all experience regarding the expansion coming from answers from an SOE Community Manager. In fact, next to none of the “review” contained actual hands on gameplay discussion, but was, in fact, simply a review of the press tour itself.
Even then, it would seem the press tour information itself is out of date, as it mentions Kylong Plains as being geared toward levels 65-70, when in fact it has been geared towards level 68+ for weeks. Writing a review to tell level 65 players that they’ll have “plenty of content” in Kunark is inaccurate. In all fairness, I realized I’m probably picking at nits on this, so I chalked it up in the same way I might chalk up a typo or a date being off by a day.
But then, I started to notice other small descrepencies as well, such as this line from page 2: “Quest drops are automatically credited on a kill without ever having to take up space in a player’s inventory.” Well, this was true for a long time in-game, but for some time now, that hasn’t been entirely accurate. In fact, with Rise of Kunark, virtually all of the quests have items which take up space in a player’s inventory. I should know - I’ve completed 50 of the quests in Kylong Plains and Fens of Nathsar so far, and I’ve actually had to clear out bag space just to work on some of those quests.
Another line that caught my eye: “As a player gains levels, their spells automatically appear in their knowledge book (and on their hotbar as space allows.” Ok, to be fair, this is true for the first 50 levels. Starting with level 51, however, you have to purchase every spell or combat art. Now, virtually all of Rise of Kunark is designed for characters higher than level 50, with only Timorous Deep containing content through level 20. This lead me to believe that the reviewer either does not play Everquest II, or at least does not play on any higher level characters. I mean, it’s not as if this is a new idea here - you haven’t been able to buy spells at level 51 since there was a level 51 (September ‘05).
Then I see the paragraph spent criticizing Everquest II’s combat system based purely on the concept of heroic opportunities, which seemed completely out of place. Not only are heroic opportunities just a small part of combat in Everquest II, with many groups and even soloers choosing to avoid them completely, but it had next to nothing to do with the expansion Rise of Kunark (a point the writer even references).
But all of this could have been forgiven in my mind as semantical or philosophical differences of opinion between a reviewer and a reader if the “review” itself didn’t abruptly end on page 2 with only a single small paragraph dedicated to actual hands-on, in-game play - and even then, it was only referring to low level Sarnak quests and combat against the spirocs (which are apprarently wearing “parrot suits” according to the article).
That’s right - two pages of “review” and only one paragraph dedicated to actual gameplay. That’s the “review” right there. Oh sure, you get to find out that the writer’s brother would be interested in picking up Rise of Kunark if Sebillis was part of the expansion (it is), but if you’re a newer or returning player looking to hear an informed opinion on whether or not you should pick up this expansion, you might want to hear a bit more than that.
Is it possible to review an expansion on the first day of its release? I think so. I think it’s absolutely possible. Even Massively.com gave a great hour by hour review of the first day of Tabula Rasa, so I know that it’s at least possible (I think Michael should too, since he’s at Massively himself). However, any attempt to defend this particular article as a “review” would ring hollow to me. It’s not a review. It’s barely an accurate preview.
And it should be ok to point that out. It should be ok to take a major network site to task for articles that meet standards. It should be ok for writers like Michael Zenke to post his opinions on the works of others, just as it should be ok for them to write their opinions on his work. As writers, how else could any of us learn except through such honest and open critiques.
By the way, if anyone wants to criticize my own critique here, be my guest. Just be prepared to explain to me how the article in question was anything close to an actual review. In fact, be ready to explain to me what 4 out of 5 hammers actually means - and how did Rise of Kunark earn those marks in the first place? Why wasn’t it a 5 out of 5? What possible factors lead to losing out on a perfect score? Because from what I read, the “review” was absolutely glowing except for newbie quests, parrot suits, and heroic opportunities.
This article awarded 7 out of 8 clockworks.
The missing hammer was because epic quests weren’t to be in the expansion at release.
I suppose that could be. But wouldn’t that be reviewing a release on what wasn’t released, as opposed to what actually was?
Yeah Ken…that also struck me as odd, i.e. reviewing a feature that was not in the game. I believe that the absence of the epic quests was communicated and a reason given, so it should not be a mark against the expansion IMHO.
Ken, you know me a LOT better than that. In expressing that, you also know that was in NO way, shape or form - me swinging.
Trust me - there’d be no mistaking it if I was.
It wasn’t his comment that bothered me in the least. It was the way that he said it. It came across as very trite and almost pissy. Shay wrote a good piece on the game, and mislabeled it
Completely her fault, yes - but did it deserve such a hard comment? I didn’t think so and I stuck up for her in that regard, not because she is “one of mine” but because she didn’t deserve the microscope or scoffing.
But hey, yer gettin’ an article out of it, so anything I can do to help - please let me know. I have a weakspot for gossip rags.
Nobody came out swinging Captain Drama Pants. Believe me, you’d know because I would’ve been there. I back up the authors position that beta really didn’t change from the live release but personally I would’ve called it a First Impression. I’d challenge you to prove that its vastly different.
For those of who have been doing this awhile, no generally you don’t do a “review” the first day but a month or so later.
I run our TR site now and Massively’s hour by hour was a blog period. It does give insight someones experience but far from the overall picture of the game.
You are also discussing the difference between a blog (which is actually one I frequent) and a news network. I know its probably easy to get confused.
P.S. I’ve corresponded with Michael who apologized for any offense he caused and wasn’t looking to “call anyone out.”
Is it a slow news day or something around here?
I didn’t -feel- defensive, but I kinda wondered what sparked the commentary.
I love to hear feedback regarding articles, but I always hope that the feedback is quality. A poke at the title and not the actual merits of the piece seemed hollow to me, kinda like an angry child that had no better come back than “Yeah, well you’re ugly!”
We write what we write for the players. If they gained some insight to Rise of Kunark off of the review/preview/first look/etc then it accomplished what it was meant to.
Cheers!
And please, don’t take this as the “Ten Ton Hammer Crew” coming and roughing you up and flooding your blog.
You named us, by name - and you should fully expect a response from anyone you wrote about.
Now, if you need us - we’ll be converging en masse on some other poor defenseless person.
Well said Ken… don’t let the TTH bully-boy crew intimidate you. Coyote and his posse are quick to try to quash any legitimate discussion with low brow humor and infantile cheap shots. It’s great to see a writer who writes what he wants to write with no regard if his writing appeals to the lowest common denominator of the audience for which he writes.
Keep up the good work!
Wow! Well, that was certainly interesting, if not a little amusing as well.
Oh sure, I understand you guys didn’t coordinate your postings. You just happened to come along within 3 minutes of each other to post back to back (Nov 15, 2:05 PM Coyote; Nov 15, 2:07 PM RadarX; Nov 15, 2:08 PM Savanja). It’s a complete coincidence and I appreciate the pre-emptive explanation to inform me of such. I can definitely see how it’s all just a big misunderstanding to see where anyone could possibly get the idea there was any ganging up or “roughing” involved. *winks*
Guys, I’m sorry if you thought I’d only post what you wanted to hear here. I guess we’re just not that kind of “gossip rag” here at Clockwork Gamer (And by the way, such name-calling seems all the more petty when just three weeks ago, Coyote referred to us as “Clockwork Gamer - Skewed towards the more serious side of the MMO world, Clockwork gamer brings you a professional, experienced, and intelligent look at games and gaming.”).
Even then, I’m still at a loss for what exactly it was that any of you didn’t like about the article, because most of your words seem directed at what you don’t like about me or this website instead. Seriously, what’s with all the animosity. Did I punch someone in the face at FanFaire in a drunken haze one night? Did I steal your money? Did I insult your significant other?
Or did I just post an opinion that differed from yours?
Look, I didn’t like the article. I didn’t feel it was much of a review. I didn’t feel it was much of a recap, preview, or first look, either. It introduced no new information for me. In fact, much of the information that was presented was either inaccurate or completely outdated. There’s next to no hands-on reference in the article, and the little bit we get is also marred by inaccuracy. So yeah, I’m pretty sure I agree with Michael’s assessment of the article. You know - the article? That thing I was posting about in the first place?
Sure, I mentioned some of you out “by name”, but it was to point out that I thought the lot of you had come back a bit defensively against Michael directly, as opposed to engaging him on why he thought the way he did. So, to prove how wrong I am, apparently the winning strategy is now to come back a bit defensively here against me directly, as opposed to engaging me on why I thought the way I did. Yeah, that’ll learn me. You guys sure know how to convince a guy.
I guess my advice would be to learn to take a little criticism constructively and professionally guys. If you don’t like what you’re hearing, you have the right to come here and defend the article…but as far as I can tell, the best defense you’re presenting here is “well, she shouldn’t have called it a review”.
Ok, fine, it’s not a review. I get it. But whatever it was - I felt it lacked. I didn’t like it. Michael didn’t like it. I’m pretty sure other folks didn’t like it. So what? Why is that worth your time to even respond to? Why does it even matter? And when you do respond, why come on down here to sully yourselves by responding to some blog that isn’t a “news network”, anyway?
So, instead of making the rounds to those “blogs” (*snort*spit*), perhaps you could instead spend some effort coaching the folks you’re paying by the article/guide to maybe work on the “polish” or “quality” a bit more. You might expect such poor reporting from us schmucks still schlepping it down here at gossip rags in the dregs of the industry, but I would hardly think that you’d consider that article to the eptiome of the standard of journalistic integrity you aspire to at the TenTonHammer network, right?
Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I just don’t understand that this IS the penultimate article per Ten Ton standards. I mean, this is what it’s all about, right? I mean I may not have personally felt the original article was very good, but maybe my opinion is just wrong. Maybe I have no idea what I’m talking about. Maybe I haven’t yet earned the right to question an article at “the ‘Hammer”.
Sure, I didn’t think the article was all that great, but you guys may feel differently. If you want to tell me how great an article that was, I look forward to you doing so. Explain here how you all stand by the article as the type of work you expect to see from a Ten Ton Hammer article. Point out how well written and informative it was. By all means, explain how it meets your standards for professional, revenue generating content.
While you’re at it, remember that you get extra points if you can make it more than a couple of paragraphs without resorting to name calling. *winks*
Hey Ken?
What are you trying to accomplish? Are you sitting there acting like you didn’t purposely throw mud and now we’re flingin’ dirt at your white suit?
7 clockworks out of 8? mocking Shay’s attempts at rating and scoffing at “what does that mean”?
You are getting exactly what you wanted - and no, this was a team effort, but yes, there was communication. Not “hey, go gang up on poor innocent Ken sitting over at his website trying to cure cancer” it was, “Hey, you guys were just mentioned over at Clockwork”. So yeah, one e-mail, several names, of course you are going to get responses.
Your problem is that you try to stir the mud without getting your hands dirty all the while chastising the people who acknowledge the filth.
Pretend what you will, but you brought up a comment on a 30 word blog entry as the main story for you blog, gave your expert opinion on something that didn’t concern you, MOCKED another writer’s style as if you were better at the craft and THEN play the victim when the lions acknowledge you tugging their tail.
All the signs of a Raving Lunatic. Oh wait, yer not - it was too beneath you.
Shake the bees nest all you want big guy - I take no offense and live for this kinda stuff, but don’t sit there and pretend that it wasn’t your intention when you have honey on your hands.
-Coyote
You wanted dramatics, and here there are. You aren’t the victim here my friend just the ringleader of the circus show.
You threw out the meat and we jumped through the hoops knowing exactly what we were doing. This is an old game that we’ve played for years.
I don’t remember reading a RoK Preview on CWG…so I’d love to see a comparison honestly. If I missed it let me know.
In fact…I don’t remember reading a “review” of anything on CWG. Your field report is…*sigh* I didn’t realize you were doing the “massively blog” thing or I probably wouldn’t have made fun of them earlier.
We’re just happy you’re still writing and hope we can provide you with more hits.
I gotta quit posting behind Radar and Coyote. I’m not with them, I just saw my name mentioned and responded. Yesterday’s already solved drama doesn’t interest me.
I’ll let the Coyote/Kendricke manlove fest continue unhindered!
To sum up the above two posts:
Coyote: “We’re all individuals! We all have our own opinions!”
Radar: “Yeah, what he said!”
As far as I’m concerned, this remains pretty simple:
I didn’t like the article. I criticised the article. Yeah, I used the 7 out of 8 clockworks to point out how ridiculous it is to score something without explaining what the score actually means - but you probably know that already, because I actually explained that in the original article.
So here I still talking about what I didn’t like about the article. And here you are still talking about what you don’t like about me.
Honestly, I have nothing but love for you guys as individuals. At FanFaire, I’d have no problem sharing a drink with any of you or in inviting you over to my table for breakfast the next day. It’s not personal. It never has been. But if you guys want to think that, that’s up to you.
At the end of the day, I’m just here to post opinions - honestly and openly - about what I like or don’t like in the gaming industry. As a “news site” for MMO’s, Ten Ton Hammer is part of the gaming industry. It means once in a while, you’re likely to get a comment or two from us down here at our end of the street.
If you guys have issues with that, or think I’m “shaking the bee’s nest”, then I can’t help that. Feel free to rant and spit all you want here - so long as you do so without scaring the children, we’ll let you pretty much say whatever you want.
Meanwhile, I’ll continue to stand by my original criticisms. I didn’t like the article. If you don’t like my criticism, that’s entirely up to you.
On the topic of reviews/previews…
I haven’t actually read a whole lot of them that I actually like. Some are written from the point of view of a player that doesn’t have any real experience of the game, which tends to make the veterans groan and go “How can you SAY that!? Don’t you know anything about ??”
Then some are written from players who have their own agenda. Whether wanting to impress gamemakers with their suckupedness or talk smack for the joy of pissing people off.
At the end of the day, reviews and previews (whatever), are just one person’s take. Players need to go in and play on their own to decide if a game (or game expansion) is for them.
With that review in particular, she was writing from her point of view. She may not be in EQ2 for hours everyday like some of us, but she pointed out what info she had and gave her opinions. I’m not sure one can do much more than that. I consider myself fairly familiar with RoK but I doubt everyone would agree with my opinions on it either.
Of course whoever wishes to disagree with her, may. These discussions are good for site hits and they don’t hurt us any.
*hands everyone a cupcake*
It isn’t what you said, it was your methods of saying it.
You know. I know. Everyone who has read this knows.
And please stop alluding to the fact that this is a “personal” attack. I have no feeling of negativity towards you in the least. You poked, mocked and put in your two cents where it didn’t belong, on a conversation that was already resolved (MMOGNation, Mike is a nice guy BTW) and now you’re playing the victim and just pretty much wiping egg off of your face.
I’m done here until the next time I see my name pop up on your column in context to being part of some viscious pack that you alone are brave enough to stand against.
So..like in a week.
See ya then.
-Coyote
Ooo! It’s so rare that I get to use the word schadenfreude!
If nothing else I at least have an eclectic vocabulary.
Carry on, and thanks for the cupcake, Cuppy.
Well that display certainly didn’t make the T.T.H. people look good.
*takes cupcake*
*Darren gives everyone a cookie*
I’m not sure that reviewing a review is ever particularly helpful. It is only one person’s opinion, after all is said and done. That said, Kendricke laid out pretty well what he expected in a review and then how this particular one did not measure up to that standard. He even provided examples to support his position.
At no point do I see where Kendricke was disrespectful to the author in question, unless you believe that disagreeing with someone’s view is being disrespectful. I do see, however, a very good example of how to NOT behave in a disagreement in the posts from the TTH crew here in this blog. Get real, folks. If you disagree with the content as written then argue the merits of the content. If Kendricke misspoke somewhere, show where the problem lies.
Flinging innuendo and sarcasm, while entertaining to some, doesn’t actually provide any meaningful discourse. ‘Professional’ writers should know better.
The best part of this thread?
RadarX calling Kendricke “Captain Drama Pants”.
(Can I borrow that one, Radar)